[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, thanks so much for listening to this message. My name is Jason and I'm one of the ministers here at the Madison Church of Christ. It's our hope and prayer that the teaching you hear today will bless your life and draw you closer to God. If you're ever in the Madison area, we'd love for you to stop by and study the Bible with us on Sundays at 05:00 p.m. Or Wednesdays at 07:00 p.m. If you have questions about the Bible or want to know more about the Madison church, you can find us
[email protected] dot be sure to subscribe to this podcast as well as our Sermons podcast Madison Church of Christ sermons thanks again for stopping by. I hope this study is a blessing to you.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: I don't know Robert's email address right off the top of my head, but mine is dicusadisonchurch.org dot. If you guys have any leftover topics that we didn't cover from Matthew from this quarter or something you want to make us aware of for the fall quarter, you can send those to me and we will start studying to try to cover those in the fall.
[00:01:00] Speaker C: And our email addresses are on the.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Website, so that's correct.
[00:01:03] Speaker C: And get to us.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Okay, anything you want to add there?
[00:01:10] Speaker C: Robert just said, I hope to see a lot of you in the fall. Yeah, we've really enjoyed the class. And I think as a class, we've gotten just as much out of the interaction and the things that have been shared by you guys as anything that David or I have said so. And I think that makes it worthwhile for us to study the Bible together. So look forward to the fall. And I bet you're surprised we're actually going to get into chapter 14 tonight with a character, Herod, who.
Who is misappropriating who Jesus is and misappropriating his. Where his power is coming from and the things that he does.
We're probably not going to get past the first couple of sections of 14.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: And I want to jump in here. I meant to say during the introduction, this was one where we were discussing this, and this is another one of those, I've probably read this multiple times, this that we're going to get into, and I don't know how deep Robert's going to go into it, but Herod and this situation we're going to talk about is messed up so deeply.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: It's.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: It's hard. It's hard to fathom in this day and age. And we talked about the reason I'm kind of chuckling, we talked about trying to build family tree here and you're gonna see as we get into this. And after I looked at it, I was like, that's just gonna make things worse. Okay. So, you know, the, the, to give you the takeaway up front, this, this Herod guy, this Herod the tetrarch and his family, this was some, I don't know, anybody to say, this is messed up. This is some really messed up stuff going on with this particular family.
[00:03:19] Speaker C: That whole tree is really messed up. And I think this is one of those stories we read through and kind of get a glimpse back at John the Baptist and what went on and why.
But I want us to talk a little bit about some of the folks that are mentioned in the story and that part of being messed up and what maybe happened to them, according to some of the history records. After this, let's just go ahead and get into it, get as far as we can.
So we're going to be in chapter 14. Go ahead and open up to that. We're going to read it eventually. But we see right in the very first verse, we start talking about Herod the tetrarch. Does everybody know what a tetrarch is?
I gotta admit I had, had forgotten exactly what that was, but I thought, we're here. Why not?
It means that he's a governor of one of four divisions in a country or province or territory, which was Galilee in this sense, this Herod. Now we're going to get to more about this Herod, and I've already covered most of this, where he talks about what happened to John the Baptist. And we recall back in Matthew 412, the only thing that was mentioned there was the arrest of John the Baptist. It didn't go to any other detail and it was kind of in passing that he mentioned that. But we're going to get a lot more of the story about the ending of John the Baptist after he was arrested.
Let's read, I'm going to go ahead and read it unless you've got it up.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: I've got it. I'll be the one.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: Let's go ahead and read one through twelve.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: Okay, so verses one through twelve, it says at that time, Herod the tetrarch heard the news about Jesus and said to his servants, this is John the Baptist. He himself has been raised from the dead and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him. For when Herod had John arrested, he bound him and put him in prison because of Herodias the wife of his brother Philip. For John had been saying to him, it is not lawful for you to have her. Although Herod wanted to put him to death, he feared the crowd because they regarded John as a prophet. But when Herod's birthday came, the daughter of Herodias danced before them and pleased herod so much that he promised with an oath to give her whatever she asked. And after being prompted by her mother, she said, give me the head of John the Baptist here on a platter. And although he was grieved, the king commanded it to be given because of his oaths and his dinner guest, he sent word and had John beheaded in prison. And his head was brought on a platter and given to the girl, and she brought it to her mother. John's disciples came and took away the body and buried it, and they went.
[00:06:25] Speaker C: And reported to Jesus.
Having read that in a couple of minutes, what do you take away from that short story?
[00:06:39] Speaker D: What he said.
[00:06:42] Speaker C: Exactly. Exactly.
When we read Matthew, I want us to think about this, because there's a lot of twists and turns and details in here that, as David said, makes this pretty ugly. And I want us to kind of think about right off the bat why Herod was thinking and doing the things he was doing and what influenced him and how that can happen to us today. Some of the very same things can influence us.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: And spoiler alert, the head on the platter is not the worst thing about this story.
[00:07:20] Speaker C: Okay, so not going to get me.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: You know. You know, I would just say I always thought it was odd.
[00:07:32] Speaker D: What?
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Why did, you know, why did he marry somebody that's nearly the same name as him? And we're going to get to that, and it's just disturbing.
[00:07:42] Speaker C: So this Herod the tetrarch that we're talking about is Herod Antipas, which was the son of Herod the Great, naturally part of that tree by the second Miriam, daughter of Simon, just trying to separate that Herod from several of the others. Herod Antipas had actually inherited this tetrarchy. Were you about to say.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to say. And that Herod the great is the one that when Jesus was born, he ordered the killing of the newborns. So this is now his son Antipas is Herod the great son.
[00:08:16] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:17] Speaker D: And it's interesting, the change between how Herod the great looked at Jesus and how Herod Antipas wound up looking at him at the end of Luke.
[00:08:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Quite different.
[00:08:28] Speaker C: Yes.
Well. And how he looked at John the Baptist, I thought, was interesting. I want us to. To think about that, too, after we get some of the understanding of these connections within this family, rootwater, whatever it is.
So, on a trip to Rome, this Herod become enamored, if you will, with Herodias, who was Herodias. It tells us in this scripture that we read that she was the wife of his brother, or half brother, Herod Philip II.
And even below that, she was actually niece to both of those brothers.
So it gets kind of ugly and twisted here.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: And the source I read said this trip to Rome, Antipas was going to see his brother. And so he was. The source I read said he was staying with his brother, and then, as he put it, got enamored with his brother's wife.
[00:09:41] Speaker C: And Herod Antipas was married. Yes. When he went on this trip, I was gonna make a Tennessee joke.
I'll avoid that.
Yeah, it could turn back on me real quick.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: I know the joke he was going to make. This is like trying to describe a Tennessee family tree. That's what it was, wasn't it? Something along those lines?
[00:10:05] Speaker C: Something like a tree. But, yeah.
So, while they were there, I mean, Herod has an eye for Herodias and actually winds up seducing her, and in time, divorces his own wife, takes Herodias as a wife, and made her his queen.
So getting to this point kind of helps us understand maybe what was in Herod's mind when those first couple of verses of this chapter and why he's thinking and saying the things about John the Baptist that he was saying.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: And there was a small little. This part, the divorcing his own wife. There was a small little war that got fought over that, because his wife heard about this stuff that was going on in Rome, and she fled. And when she got to her father, her father was like, okay, I've got her protected now. And then he went to war with Herod Antipas.
[00:10:59] Speaker C: So this was at the end of the story.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Well, it's.
[00:11:02] Speaker C: I'm sorry, that's the after. That's some of the. What happens after?
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: Okay.
You're getting ahead of us.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: I'm sorry.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: So, Herod had arrested John, put him in prison, we see in verse three.
And John actually called this Herod out for what he was doing and said it just was not lawful for him to have Herodias as his wife. And if you can think to the jewish customs and time how they were viewing this with this going on, he was already married. There's this family tree stuff about he wanted his brother's wife, who was his niece of both brothers, which is.
It's just kind of twisted. And I want us to jump over to Mark. 619 and 20. Somebody gets that. Go ahead and read it.
It's just another piece of the story that in Mark's account to make it clear about Herodias.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: I got it.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: And Herodias held a grudge against him and wanted to put him to death, that him would be John the Baptist and could not do so. For Herod was afraid of John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man and he had been protecting, protecting him. And when he heard him, he was very perplexed. And yet he used to enjoy listening to him.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: Some of the thoughts, the way he's thinking about John the Baptist. But Herodias had a grudge against John because he had called them out and was condemning their relationship.
[00:12:48] Speaker D: You know, it sure makes you think about the ark from the Old Testament with John the Baptist. That is the precursor to Christ and then Christ and his ministry.
Why John was allowed to be killed was that because it was necessary that his ministry come to an end and not be thought of by anyone as continuing, so that the focus could be fully on Christ. But it makes you think about. I mean, it could have been prevented, right? Easily struck down the guards or Herod or, you know, any of those other things we read about the New Testament or the Old Testament.
[00:13:26] Speaker C: Interesting thought, because he did, after he was arrested, he still had some followers. Right? And we talked about that in some of the earlier chapters where he sent them to talk to Jesus. So interesting thought.
[00:13:44] Speaker D: Some have thought that that was kind of a precursor to kind of foreshadowing of Christ was calling out the world. John was calling out the leadership in that area, and John was killed for that. And now Jesus comes along and he's calling out the whole world, and Jesus was killed for that.
[00:14:12] Speaker C: Interesting thought.
Any other thoughts for perspectives on John the Baptist?
[00:14:25] Speaker D: I guess the one thing that stands out to me is his boldness, his willingness to say what was right in spite of the consequences.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: And who he was saying it to was actually very bold.
So.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: And by context, I think he was saying it to his face. He wasn't off in the wilderness saying this. And then it's getting back to Herod.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: He's telling him he wasn't saying it about him.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Yeah, he was saying it, too.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:57] Speaker E: I find it odd that Herod protected him even though he was told the truth. I mean, there must have been.
Even in spite of his family upbringing, there must have been a bit of goodness in there and that he. Or maybe it was just fear, but something kept him going back and listening to him instead of just doing away with them.
[00:15:22] Speaker C: Some of that's kind of what I wanted us to start thinking about what was in his. There was obviously some type of respect. It may have been some fearful, but there was some curiosity.
We see in both Matthew and Mark's accounts that we do know there's fear. Fear not just of John the Baptist, but of his followers.
We hear that, but Mark says he liked listening to him and he knew and respected that he was a prophet. But Herod had a lot going on in his family and relationships.
And next thing you know, he's saying this guy out here doing all these miracles is John the Baptist and he's come back from the dead and that's why he has these powers. I mean, that's way out there.
But I'm trying to understand what all was in Herod's mind. He was obviously obsessed, enamored with certain things, attracted by certain things, even down to the point of his stepdaughter dancing and him deciding to give her whatever she wants.
Is that wise?
[00:16:48] Speaker E: I think it speaks to Herod having he feels guilt for this. He could have chosen not to honor her request.
But you know how when you think you've done something wrong, you're going to immediately think that Jesus is John the Baptist and he's going to come back.
[00:17:08] Speaker C: And get you kind of looking over your shoulder kind of thoughts.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: The other clause I saw that I think is, I'm going to sound like I'm making a joke, but I'm really not. But it's verse nine that the reason he went ahead with it was because of his dinner guests.
I mean, that to me says something about Herod's mindset and the power that he knew he had that he was willing to kill because of his dinner guests.
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: What is that weakness?
[00:17:52] Speaker D: The inability to stand up and say, that's not right. I know I made this foul, but, you know, explain that's not what's intended.
Anything close to what I intended, and that would be wrong. You know, just say, no, I'm not going to do that.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: But he could have said whatever and changed any rule, right? Yeah, with his word. But I think you're right. I think he was weak.
And back to the dinner guest, what about his perception of what people think?
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I never understood it.
[00:18:27] Speaker D: Maybe I knew the answer to this question and forgotten it. But were they jewish? Why would they care about the jewish law and whether or not you can marry a family member.
It certainly did awful things to the Jews.
So I don't know the answer to that question. Do they have a jewish heritage that makes them feel bound by that law? Why would they care what this wild man in the wilderness says?
[00:18:52] Speaker B: So I can't answer that. Right. You may know, but I know Herod did have some jewish lineage, so.
And I was actually, it was right before class. I was reading some about that. I don't know if anybody else in the class knows, but, yeah, they were. They were jewish. So for John the Baptist to be saying that to them was.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Was a.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Was a big deal. I don't. I don't know, you know now.
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I don't know how adherent he was, maybe is the word, but. But he had a. He had a lineage and there was. There was a. There was a connection to a chief priest, wasn't there? There was a familial connection to one of the chief priests through Herod chain.
[00:19:39] Speaker D: Yeah, well, he's king, he's a tetrarch, whatever. I mean, just saying all this big stuff in front of your friends, your companions. Right there is enough of an embarrassment not to follow through. I was going to say, I think that already Herodias thought that John was having an influence on him.
She could have had whatever through her daughter. I think she may have killed two birds, killed one bird and got two things. Number one, she got rid of John, but she might have also not liked what Herod seemed to be thinking about. Denise.
He made a rash oath to start with, and the law said, keep your oath regardless.
But here's a man that chooses his scruples.
[00:20:32] Speaker C: Yeah. He was keeping very much worthy of anything.
[00:20:35] Speaker D: What he wants to obey and what he doesn't want to obey. So that was no excuse for him to carry through with murder just because he'd made an oath. But again, that shows how weak he was.
I think part of it was that he's having this banquet. He made this promise in front of all of his important guests.
And so she asked for something that he didn't want to do. So if he said no, those guys out in the audience are going to know that I can't trust what the say in the future when I ask him something, he may break that promise in the future. So I'm already start. If I do this, I may start something that I can't eat, end or may cause problems down the road. So I've got to honor this.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: So I have a question? And this was based off what we're talking about now. So you point out his weakness. It seems to be that he cares what people think.
And Herodias, what did she do? She had to have known what that weakness was, and she absolutely exploited it.
Right.
And that makes, you know, against latin scripture. It makes me wonder, what was her motive in doing that? Was her motive to kill John the Baptist? I think that's part of it. But was part of it to kind of show him, you know, as somebody pointed out, you know, I don't like. I don't like where you're going. If you're gonna make me uncomfortable, because the girl that's dancing is her daughter, you know, and she's like, okay, is, if that's how we're going to play it, then how about this? You know, I don't know. But I'm saying, again, we're talking about a very, very terrible situation here.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: She.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: I believe she knew what she was doing to him. She knew what she was doing to him.
[00:22:39] Speaker E: She knew she had been the other woman.
[00:22:42] Speaker C: That's.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: That's very true.
[00:22:44] Speaker E: She could have seen, you know, how perhaps he was looking at her daughter. And so she exploited that to her benefit on both counts.
[00:22:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Somebody over here had a hand up.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: Was she.
[00:22:56] Speaker D: Who was the king of the Jew? Who was the king of the Jews?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: I feel like, okay, great.
[00:23:03] Speaker D: The Romans put the Herodians, a jewish sect, to rule locally. So the Romans had control, but he was given locally they were Jews. Herod the great, the king of the Jews, that was the problem. Jesus, supposedly king of the Jews, so he was Jewish, did not want to upset those that thought he and the Herodians were the rulers and everything of the Jews.
[00:23:38] Speaker C: And that ties in with the lead into the chapter where all this started with him being concerned over this man called Jesus out there doing all this stuff and getting all this attention and this thing, if you will.
So can we make application at all to today, to us?
We may all like to think we're immune or we can resist or. You about to say something, dad?
Amen to that.
Be careful what we participate in.
Things that influence us.
And there's two sides to that influence.
[00:24:33] Speaker D: I think the company seems like he has a little bit of remorse for having to kill John, so he's realizing it at the worst possible moment. So you just have to be very, you know, on your toes about the people around you. There's people who can try out and be snakes, and you don't realize it.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: Stop and think, stop and cool down that rash oath.
And then he couldn't back away from it because of a weak will and fear of what people would think.
Any other thoughts?
I don't know if we're gonna make it. Go ahead.
[00:25:20] Speaker D: So, like in. Margaret said that he liked to listen to John, and I think maybe there was just, like, a spark of, like, spiritual interest, but I don't think he took it any farther.
Maybe, you know, we should take things more to heart.
[00:25:39] Speaker C: Spark a spiritual interest, maybe even just personal.
May have liked the guy to some degree until he wound up condemning him for what he was.
Had done and was doing.
I agree.
[00:25:58] Speaker F: I think in a secular sense, like, we live in a culture where people want to be married, who they want to be. They want to be married to whom they want to be married to. And that's a big discussion. And people have the right to be in certain marital circumstances and all these things. But here it's like, you have two people who technically got what they wanted with their relationship and their sinful marriage, but it only made things worse, and they only continued to have problems of infidelity and betrayal and power struggle. And I don't know. I think it's hard to convince people a lot of times that getting what you want out of things like that, especially today, is not necessarily a good thing. But here you see that all these problems just compound on each other. Rather than anything getting better, everything is worse, ultimately.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Did they get what they wanted?
[00:26:52] Speaker C: No.
No, they didn't. Good thoughts.
[00:26:57] Speaker E: I think it might have backfired on Herodias because it says that he put him in. That Herod put him in prison for her sake.
But, you know, up until that point, he probably really hadn't heard any of John's teachings directly. And maybe she started having an impact on Mary.
You know, maybe he might put her away or divorce her. But, you know, if. If he continued to follow and do what John was preaching about and take to heart that it was unlawful for there to be together.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that's possible.
I mean, the term conniving comes to me. That's yours, kind of, yeah.
[00:27:45] Speaker D: Rodeos would be on TikTok today.
I'm certain of that. For a reality show.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Thrill housewives of Judea. I like that.
[00:27:59] Speaker C: Well, we. It's interesting. Julie mentions this. And back to the. Looking over your shoulder, and you may get what you want personally today if you're ignoring everything around you and truth.
But has anybody studied or read anything about what happened to Barodias or her daughter after would be after this story, after John the Baptist was, didn't she.
[00:28:30] Speaker E: Marry her great uncle?
[00:28:34] Speaker C: The daughter Mary, her great uncle?
Yeah. I don't remember exactly who she married, but.
Were you about to say something, Ronnie? I thought you were.
And it's, it's just things that I read from Josephus and some of the other historical.
That record. But did you go wash your eyes out after you read that?
But actually the. And you. That's what, you know, if you want to finish that.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: No, I would rather you do it because I clearly don't know as much. So go ahead.
[00:29:16] Speaker C: What's this that she married? And it was her father that wound up engaging, attacking Herod and Antipas and actually wound up conquering him.
And so he and Herodias were, were banished to, I don't remember where it was called by Caligula to lions in France on the charge of misgovernment.
And some say it was just punishment for hearkening to her solicitations.
And it was also recorded that the daughter of Herodias and I don't know, I just read this, but in crossing a river in the wintertime a frozen over body of water broke through and actually was beheaded by ice. It removed her head.
You know, and there are different, different stories out there. I mean, that was consistent in several things that I read. But makes you wonder, you know, what does follow you through life.
Interesting how that ended for them.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:30:54] Speaker C: Was that what you were, what you had read?
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:57] Speaker C: Yes. So, okay.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Let'S move real quick. This is just real. This is simple. The next thing we go into is feeding in the 5000. It is captured in all four gospels. Now, taking information from all four of those we get to the next couple slides that I put in here. So this is a map of what we would call the holy ends today. But Israel, you got the dead sea down here and the Sea of Galilee up here. And if you'll advance the slide for me, Robert.
So it mentions, it's specifically in Mark that it's somewhere around Bethsaida is where they are. That was actually the birthplace of Andrew. That's in scripture. So Andrew the apostle was born in, in Bethsaida. And interestingly, if you go to the holy lands today they put the feeding of the 5000. They actually have an official, like, historical place. And it's over here. And almost universally scholars say, no, no, no, no, it was over here somewhere. They think it was actually on the eastern side of the Sea of Galilee, south of Bethsaida. And can we go ahead and go to the next one there's a picture, there's a place called this is the plain of Bethsaida. You're seeing it here. So it's here looking down out on the Sea of Galilee. And the next one was a place that we don't know that this is where it happened but they took a picture that this would be kind of like a likely place and it gives you an idea of what the geography would look like there. So it's this plain. You can see, you know, there's trees and stuff around and maybe even some rocks over here. But then there are these big open spaces where people could go down could go and sit down and eat.
Won't get time to go into it tonight.
I did think it was interesting that, you know as somebody was saying, you know, so John the Baptist has died and it says that they've come and they've told Jesus. He goes off to be by himself. The crowd follows and when he comes back, right.
This is a big deal. I think the reason it's a big deal is this is very, very public miracle that he did. And it's a, you know, the other thing that's interesting to me is every single miracle that you, that we read about they're virtually all undeniable, right? So this one, and the scope of this is so undeniable, right, that he had basically nothing and he fed 5000 people.
And so this was a big public miracle. When he was done, he didn't say, now don't tell anybody about this. And we had seen some of the others. He had said that. He had said, you know, don't, you know, don't go tell. But this one to me it's almost like this is, this is to your point, Mark, this is the beginning. John the Baptist is dead and now it's time to start is kind of the way I looked at it. So that was the second bell and we'll pick up there in 13 weeks. We'll start in the middle of chapter 14 and keep going. Again, thanks everyone. We hope you all come back in the fall.
[00:34:32] Speaker C: Thanks for sharing.
