[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, thanks so much for listening to this message. My name is Jason and I'm one of the ministers here at the Madison Church of Christ. It's our hope and prayer that the teaching you hear today will bless your life and draw you closer to God. If you're ever in the Madison area, we'd love for you to stop by and study the Bible with us on Sundays at 5pm or Wednesdays at 7pm if you have questions about the Bible or want to know more about the Madison Church, you can find us
[email protected] be sure to subscribe to this podcast as well as our Sermons podcast, Madison Church of Christ Sermons. Thanks again for stopping by. I hope this study is a blessing to you.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Alright, so tonight is on the heart and purpose of Corrective Discipline.
An easy topic to.
Easy topic to discuss.
But seriously, I mean, this is, this is one of the harder things about parenting. I mean, this is one of the harder things to do.
It's one of the harder things to, to know what to do, to know how to do it.
It's one of the harder things because it's usually packed with emotion in the midst of it.
So to me, this is one of the harder, like I said, it's one of the harder aspects of parenting.
Hopefully we'll do it justice. Tonight we'll be looking at a lot of scripture. We're going to let the Bible be our guide on this as we do with everything as we get into this topic. So I thought I'd start out kind of setting, maybe kind of setting the stage of really what it is we're talking about.
And this is my own chart. So I came up with this. If you don't like it, you can blame it on me.
So the biggest bubble here is parenting. And there's a lot that goes into that. We've talked about lot of that already. But I mean that's just caring for your child, caring for their needs.
You know, they need food, they need shelter, you know, those kinds of things. All that, all those things go into that big bubble of parenting that aren't necessarily training, but there's a lot of other stuff that we do.
But so the focus on this is on training. So how do we train our children in the things that we want them to become as we're trying to develop them into godly people that follow God, have relationship with him and all that stuff. So most of the classes this quarter, I would say are on kind of the positive aspects of that. How do you do that? How do you teach them about God? How do you teach them right and wrong?
How do you teach them those character attributes that you want them to have?
So that's been. I guess if there's 13 weeks, I think most of 12 of those weeks are really on the positive side of that.
But then there's, okay, well, what happens when things don't go as they should and you have to address behavior issues with your children? Right.
So that's what we're going to be focusing on tonight.
We'll try to do it all in one class, kind of mentioned, just kind of tell a little bit, try to bring in a few stories. But like, for us, when we were parents, and I'm thinking more when our children, especially when they were younger, we were very conscious about focusing on the positive aspects of parenting. And by positive, I mean the act of teaching versus correcting. Right. We wanted to. We didn't want to just be in correction mode all the time. We wanted to really focus.
Focus on the positive things, including recognizing when they do something good and recognizing that. Right. All those things. And so we were very conscious about that, about having that approach with our children.
But I can remember plenty of days at the end of the night, you get the kids to bed and you sit on the couch and you're tired, and you take a huge, deep breath and you let out a big, huge sigh, and you think, we spent the whole day doing nothing but correcting.
We were committed to these positive aspects of teaching, but it seems like we ended up having to spend the whole day correcting.
So, like, okay, let's get back at it tomorrow.
You just keep at it.
To me. So the positive aspects of parenting, to me, are more deliberate.
Correction is a little more reactive. You got to react to what they do and correct in the moment. And sometimes, sometimes it takes up your time.
But in the midst of that, I think you still got to stay committed to those positive aspects of parenting. All right, so kind of diving in and within correction, kind of a subset of that is punishment. So there's more to correction than just punishing. That's. That's a part of it. Punishing bad behavior is an aspect, but there's a whole lot more to it than that, than just punishing. It could be providing correction in other ways. And we'll talk about that as we go through it.
The Heart and purpose of Correction was the title, the title given Brent came up with. I really like that because it's good to just remember and remind ourselves what is the heart and purpose of this.
And I think in the middle of that, maybe also remind ourselves what. It's not the heart and purpose of correction, for one.
It's an expression of love. It's got to be based on love.
We do it because we love our children.
So we definitely need to understand that. And it's about correction.
It's not about retribution. It's not about getting even. It's not about justice with our children. That's not the purpose of it. The purpose is to correct them and to bring them back in alignment with where they should be.
So it's about correction.
It should never be done in anger.
It shouldn't be about our anger.
And again, it shouldn't be about justice, but it's about, like I said, bringing them back into line.
When I think of correction, one of the things I think about is garden.
Kind of think about training and correction.
If you're planting a garden, the positive things that you do, you obviously got to plant seed, you got to provide water and sunshine and fertilizer, and all those things are kind of the positive side of it. But you also got to pull weeds.
So that's really what we're talking about here, is, okay, we got to do some weed pulling Sometimes.
I want to look at this scripture. It says, all scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.
From 2 Timothy 3, 16. Very well known passage.
So I like to think of life like a walk. And the scripture uses that metaphor a lot. Life is like a walk. So if we're trying to find the path that we're supposed to be on, we're trying to walk the path of righteousness.
So to me, teaching is showing us where that path is, what is the right way that we should be walking.
Reproof is pointing out when we get off the path.
So it's pointing out our mistakes, pointing out our sins.
That's what that idea of reproof is. The idea of correction is okay, if I'm off the path, how do I get back on it?
So making a correction to get back where I need to be and then training is teaching me how to stay on the path.
So this isn't specifically talking about parenting, but I think it applies.
Applies as well.
So I think of also think of like a golf swing. So I used to. Used to play golf a lot, and it used to be decent, and now I'm not very good at all.
So if I go to a golf, if I were to go get lessons from a golf coach, he might teach me the correct way to swing.
But when I do something wrong, I want him to give me reproof. I want him to show me where I did wrong, right?
And I want him to correct that. And then I also want him to train me on how to do it right. So that's the idea when I go to the golf coach.
I like all those things and I want the correction. But we don't always receive correction well, do we?
We don't always receive reproof well, sometimes it's hard for us to receive it. And I think especially, especially for children, sometimes it's hard for them to receive it.
So sometimes it's hard for us to receive correction.
So I want to talk about the word discipline. So I didn't use in that chart I did earlier. I didn't use the word discipline, but to kind of talk a little bit about that word and how it's used in scripture. So is discipline training?
Is it correction? Is it punishment?
Is it any or all of those things? And how does the Bible use that word?
So the word discipline from Webster is to punish as a means of enforcing obedience was the first definition. It's also to train or to develop and especially in terms of self control. So I'm disciplining myself.
Maybe you're going to the gym, you're disciplining yourself to do that.
It's also to bring under control. And that's especially like disciplining troops is kind of the way that one was, was used anyway. So that's Webster's definitions.
See a couple of ideas in there. It's control or self control.
Punishment is also in that definition.
So where the word discipline comes from, it's a Latin word, discipulus, which means a pupil or student or a learner.
So that's where the idea comes from.
So what I wanted to do is talk about disciple and discipline. Those are a little different things. Even though in English they come from the same Latin word, they're actually a little bit different. They come from two different Greek words.
So when we see disciple in the Bible, it comes from a Greek word, mathetes. It's actually the same word for math, but it has to do with deep learning.
So a disciple is a pupil, a learner, an apprentice.
The Hebrew is Talmud.
And then the word discipline is from padayo, which is to correct or chastise. So when we see the word discipline in the Bible, it has more to do with correction. So this is really what we're talking about tonight, is correcting misbehavior.
So Typically, the word discipline, the verb form, especially in the Bible, it's talking about correcting.
And sometimes it kind of means training, sometimes the context, it kind of means punishment. You kind of got to look at the context.
But anyway, that's the idea of discipline.
So, as I said, I wanted to spend a lot of time in Scripture tonight, so we're going to look at several scriptures that talk about all these ideas. Discipline, correction, punishment.
So we'll start in Proverbs.
Proverbs 10:17.
Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life, but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.
So it kind of plays off that same metaphor I was talking about, how we're trying to walk the path, stay on the path, right?
Listening to instruction helps us to stay on the path.
But if we reject reproof, it not only affects us, but it also affects others.
So when we steer off that path, we not only are going astray ourselves, but we're also leading others astray.
Proverbs 6:23 says, for the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life.
This kind of plays off again, that same metaphor of the lamp being something that shows us the way.
So it's the kind of. The positive aspects of teaching.
So these are paired, right? We need that positive aspect, but we also need correction. So we need to be shown the way, but also corrected when we stare off the way. And those kind of go together, and they work together to help us to learn.
So teaching and reproof, reproof of discipline.
Proverbs 15:32.
Whoever ignores instruction despises himself.
But he who listens to reproof gains knowledge.
So if we're not willing and notice, these are kind of connected, the instruction and reproof. Again, they're the two sides that kind of go together.
But if we don't listen to instruction, we're not helping ourself, we're not benefiting ourself.
And these aren't really about parenting, but it applies to parenting.
So we need to be able to teach our children to listen to instruction, and that helps them.
Not only the instruction, but also the correction helps them, helps them to grow.
And then Proverbs 12, one great one. Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.
You don't see the word stupid a whole lot in the Bible, but here it is in the esv.
So again, the importance that discipline and reproof have in our learning and our growing.
So I think we can all agree that correction is a good thing. It helps us to learn, it helps us to grow.
So this is the question I was thinking was coming earlier, but here it is. So if it's so good for us, why do we not like it?
And I'm kind of making an assumption that we don't really like to be corrected. But if it's so good for us, why do we not like correction?
You know, we all have these egos, right? We don't want to admit we're wrong. I have no problem admitting my golf swing stinks, and I want the instructor to tell me what I'm doing wrong. But when somebody wants to correct me about other parts of my life, it's a little harder to take sometimes.
So really, the point of this is to think about how we accept correction and then think about how our children might accept correction.
If we have a hard time with it, our children might have a hard time with it for similar reasons. Maybe a little different, maybe maturity.
Different levels of maturity may impact that, certainly, but.
And how it's delivered, I think impacts how we receive it as well.
So it's kind of an awareness that correction isn't easy, I guess, is really the point I'm trying to get to. Even though we know it's good for us, it's not easy.
Some verses about how God disciplines Proverbs 3, 11:12 My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline, or be weary of his reproof.
For the Lord reproves him whom he loves as a father, the Son in whom he delights.
So the Lord disciplines, he disciplines the people that he loves.
But there's a warning, don't be weary of it.
So there's a risk of it being weary to us.
But he says, don't be weary of it. And realize that even though it may feel weary to us, realize that God does it out of love.
Revelation 3:19 has a similar thought.
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline.
So be zealous and repent.
So it's a reminder that when we feel that discipline that's maybe uncomfortable, that it's that it's because of love.
And our children may feel that from time to time when they feel that discipline, that correction, it may be uncomfortable, it may make them weary, but they need to be reminded maybe that it's because we love them and we're doing it out of love. They need to not only be reminded with our words, but with our actions that that's why we're doing it.
Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom you discipline, O Lord, and whom you teach out of your law.
So this idea of blessed is somebody that it's a positive thing to you. It's really connected to the idea of joy, but it's the idea of the good life. So you have a good life if you're disciplined by God and you're taught out of his law and realize again, the heart and the purpose of the correction and the discipline.
Alright, I want to talk a little bit about the nature of correction.
So there's a fairly lengthy passage here in Hebrews that we'll look at and we'll kind of make some points, some points as we go.
Hebrews 12, 5, 11.
And so let me give a little bit of the context here.
He's talking to the Hebrew writer, is talking to Christians who are enduring hardship, and he's telling them that the hardships that you're enduring are actually helping you to grow.
And the way he's doing that is he's making an analogy and comparing it to the discipline that God gives us, which is also compared to the discipline that a father gives us. Okay, so that's kind of the context, the chain of thought here.
So Hebrews 12, 5, 11 have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons, my son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him, for the Lord disciplines the one he loves. So I think we already looked at that, that verse. It's a quote from Proverbs and chastises every son whom he receives. And again we see that idea of weary.
So being corrected is not easy.
And that's okay, you know, it's okay if we don't always, you know, don't always feel excitement about being corrected.
You know, we shouldn't expect to.
It's difficult, but we need to be reminded not to be weary under it and realize that it's because of love that we're experiencing discipline.
It is for discipline that you have to endure. So again, something may not be easy. We have to endure it. We have to bear it.
God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
If you are left without discipline in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. So if we're children, we're going to experience that discipline, right?
If we don't, we're not sons. We're at least not being treated like sons.
So if we love our children, we will discipline just as God disciplines us.
Besides, this we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them.
And again, the idea here is don't think that because you discipline your children won't have a loving relationship with you and respect you. You know, I think it's captured as respect here. But discipline done properly, even though it may not be pleasant to the child, it's not going to damage, it's not going to damage the relationship when it's done in a loving, in a loving manner. Okay, in the end, they're going to respect you.
Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live for they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
For the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant. But later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. All right, so a big passage.
I've already said a few things about it. There's a lot we can say here, and I think a lot we can learn.
But discipline, especially if it involves punishment, may seem painful.
But there's long term benefit, right?
That's really what you're looking for.
There may be pain involved, there may be discomfort, weariness, whatever you're willing for that short term pain for the long term gain is really what the idea here is. What the idea here is, okay, we experience that ourselves in the trials that we go through.
Our children experience that when we correct them. Right? Like I said, correction is not easy. It's not always received great.
But the short term pain that they experience from it benefits them long term.
All right, a couple more verses that talk about kind of the nature of correction.
Proverbs 29:19. By mere words a servant is not disciplined, for though he understands, he will not respond.
And then Proverbs 29:21, a servant pampered from childhood will become a rebel. So both of these, these are kind of a couple passages from Proverbs that are talking more about servants. But I think, I think the same principle applies to raising children. So I think the second one, 2921, I think is obvious, right? If you pamper your children, it's not going to turn out well.
If you spoil them, it doesn't mean don't love them and treat them well. It's not obviously not what that means, but pampering them in the sense of you never provide correction, I think is what this is after.
At the end, they're going to rebel.
Go into the other verse.
It says mere words, a servant is not Disciplined.
Ideally, your words are all they need.
Ideally. But sometimes the words don't work. Right. Sometimes there needs to be punishment. We'll get into punishment a little bit more. But sometimes there has to be punishment. Sometimes just the words don't work.
There's a Jewish proverb. It's not in the Bible. A word of the wise is sufficient.
And ideally, ideally, if they're receptive, a word of correction is all they need.
But there are times when it takes more than just a word of correction.
All right, so some examples of God's discipline and how he is disciplined.
We won't spend necessarily a lot of time on each of these, but the wilderness wandering is an example. When they were on their way to the promised land and had to wander in the wilderness for a period of time, that wasn't pleasant, but it was for their long term benefit.
And God specifically did that to discipline and teach, to teach those people.
Jonah was also disciplined. When he did not obey again, short term pain for long term benefit, Jonah responded. There's more to Jonah's story too. But at least initially he repented and responded from that discipline. He received Nebuchadnezzar as well.
Zechariah is another one. Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, when he didn't believe the angel, he was mute and had to experience that punishment. So we're kind of getting into the punishment side, a little bit of discipline here.
But he experienced that for the purpose of teaching him.
And then the Babylonian exile, this is not an individual again, a whole people exiled into Babylon as punishment.
But all these are not.
And we'll get to the last question here, but we'll just kind of go ahead and ask it. So what's the difference between discipline and judgment?
Yeah, yeah. So discipline is really about correcting. It's about bringing you back onto the path that you're supposed to be.
Judgment is more of a final thing.
So the people in Noah's day were judged, Right? The people in Canaan were judged. The people in Nineveh would have been judged if they hadn't repented when Jonah went.
So our job is not to punish for the sake of judgment, to execute justice on our children. I guess that's what I'm getting at. That's not our job.
Our job is discipline. To teach, to bring them back in line, to bring them back on the path. That's our purpose.
Our purpose isn't to be the judge and to execute justice. That's kind of where I was going with that.
A couple that are about church discipline. And again, this is kind of discipline in general. But we can kind of maybe see how this applies to parenting. But there's a couple of passages that speak more about discipline from a church perspective. This is Paul writing. He says, if anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person and have nothing to do with him that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
So the punishment that they were talking about here is an isolation of this person who was sinning.
And again, the punishment was not a judgment. It was a discipline to try to bring them back and hopefully to be ashamed of what they had done, right?
To experience those emotions that would hopefully wake them up and bring them back, make them aware of their wrong and bring them back.
Let's look at the 1 in Second Corinthians 2, 5, 8.
Now, if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it, not to me, but in some measure, not to put it too severely to all of you, for such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough.
So you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. So this is another example of where a church was disciplining someone to try to bring them back.
And we're kind of reading between the lines here a little bit, some implication, but apparently the person who responded, and he's saying, now turn and forgive him, right? He experienced sorrow for what he had done.
Now turn and forgive him. We don't want him to have excessive sorrow, right? And it's really about degree, right? It's okay to be sorrow, but you don't want something to be excessively sorrow.
Experience excessive sorrow, right?
In the first verse, it's good that somebody felt ashamed, but we wouldn't want them to be shamed to the point of humiliation. So it's really kind of about degree is what I'm getting at.
So how does that apply to parenting?
I mean, sometimes we have to cause our children to experience those negative emotions associated with their misbehavior.
They may experience them naturally. You may have to isolate them or do something else that causes them to experience those negative emotions that associate. And we'll kind of get into this a little bit more that associate that behavior.
That associate that emotion to that behavior. Right? Now, we never want to do it excessively.
We don't want to if we're excessive. If they feel excessive shame or excessive sorrow, that's. That's Damaging. That's not what we're after. We're after correction, right?
All right. The rod.
So I definitely don't want to make this class about spanking, but I also don't want to ignore it.
So I want to look at some verses that talk about the rod.
Before we do that, I want to talk a little bit about what even a rod is. It's not something we have.
So a rod was basically two to three foot club that was carried by different people. It was a weapon of defense. It was a defense.
You know, it usually came from a root ball, had a little ball on the end. Okay. It was basically a club. Okay.
Shepherds carried it, but other people carried it as well.
But it was a defense mechanism. Okay.
All right, so Proverbs 22:15, after we read, we'll kind of come back and talk about these and what this means, and I'll kind of give you my thoughts on it.
Proverbs 22:15.
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.
Proverbs 13:24. Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
Proverbs 23:13, 14.
Do not withhold discipline from a child. If you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from sheol.
Some translations say death in 2 Samuel 7, 14, 15.
I will be to him a father. And this is God speaking to David about Solomon.
I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of man, with the stripes of the Son of man. But my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you.
All right, so I want to talk about the idea of rod here. And again, these are not easy passages to read.
I think they've probably been misunderstood.
But I do want to be clear that when the Bible is speaking about rod here, it is talking about physical punishment.
I think that's clear from the verses, clear from the context. Right.
You know, I've seen kind of some new interpretations that talk about the rod being used in other ways, and it wasn't a physical punishment. And I just don't believe that aligns with the context of what the Scriptures are teaching. And I think it's clear.
Clear from the. From the context that that's. That's what it's talking about.
So. So I think the context there is a little different.
The rod is a weapon. So he basically saying my father's weapon comforts me because I know he's going to protect me. I think that's the context there. I don't think it's talking about discipline. I think it's really talking about enemies fighting off enemies in that context. But yeah, I would focus more on the personally, I would focus more on these. I think these are clearly in the discipline area.
So I want to give my thoughts on this because I know it's an important issue. Like I said, I don't want to make the class about this, but also do want to share what I think is being said here.
I think this is talking about physical discipline.
I think the Bible doesn't prohibit physical discipline. I think it's clearly talked about here in these verses, but I also don't think it requires physical discipline either.
So these are proverbs. They need to be read as wisdom.
I don't think it's saying if you don't use physical discipline or spank that you're not being a good parent. I don't think that's what it's after. I do think it is saying if you don't correct your children, you're not being a good parent. I do think it's saying that. I don't think it means it's. It has to be a physical discipline.
But I also think it's clear from these verses that in these verses at least it is talking about a physical discipline. Alright. I don't necessarily want to say a whole lot more about it. That's probably about all I want to say because I do want to get to some other topics and didn't want to make it about that. But anyway, those are my thoughts.
So because that was first bell, I'm going to.
I'm going to move a little bit.
All right. Warnings to parents Ephesians 6:1:4 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and your mother. This is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. The do not provoke your children to anger is is an important warning.
We can discipline our children in a way that is destructive.
And that's what this passage is about.
And the way it is described here is provoking them to anger.
Colossians 3:20 21 is a similar idea.
Verse 21, fathers, do not provoke your children lest they become discouraged.
And again, we can discipline in a way that is damaging.
We need to always remember the purpose, the heart of discipline, why we're doing it, and that its intention is about correction. It's not out of anger, it's not out of retribution or any of those other things.
And it's especially not harsh.
It doesn't mean it's pleasant, but it's not harsh. And hopefully we understand the difference.
Alright, so some conclusions, I think as I look across all these scriptures, some conclusions. Correction is an important part of training.
Correction done appropriately is an expression of love.
Punishment is often a needed part of that correction. If we can correct verbally and they respond to that correct, great.
But sometimes you need more than that.
Sometimes you need punishment, sometimes you need consequences to reinforce that message.
Punishment could be physical or non physical, but it should always be for the purpose of correction, done out of love and never harsh.
Alright, so I want to talk a little bit about different types of correction.
One is just natural consequences.
Sometimes there are natural consequences for what they've done and they experience those natural consequences and they can learn from that. And you don't need to do anything else.
Obviously you got to monitor that.
I'm not going to let my child play in the street. The natural consequences, they get hit by a car. That's right. I mean you've got to monitor that.
But sometimes in some situations the natural consequences, a learning opportunity and you just monitor that and you allow that. Right.
There's also verbally explaining and reasoning with them, explaining what they did wrong to them, reasoning about that, telling them why that was wrong, what they should have done instead.
That's critically important part of correcting.
Sometimes there's punishment, okay.
And punishment is really pain. I put pain in quotes meant to correct misbehavior. It could be making them feel sorry for what they've done or making them feel ashamed.
And there's different ways, there's different ways to do that, but it needs to be associated to the behavior. Okay, all right. So I want to say a little bit about punishment.
It's always for the purpose of correction. It needs to associate to the misbehavior.
So if you're punishing your three year old the next day for something, they're not going to remember, they're not going to know. Right?
So time is part of that.
So they need to be able to associate what they've done to why they're being punished and they need to be able to make that connection it should always be minimal.
The minimum required to make the lesson. It should never be harsh. It's always motivated by love.
Some examples.
Time out. Spanking.
We use spanking. And I'm not here to say you have to. If you choose not to, that is your choice.
What I am saying is you need to be correcting your child.
Loss of privileges, extra work and chore. We used all these in our parenting. Right.
Some practical advice.
And this may be the last slide. We get to stay calm in the moment. There's a lot of emotions with them. And with you. Stay calm.
If you can't stay calm, come back.
Use the least severe method that's effective.
Consider mitigating factors. If they're up an hour or two past their bedtime, you need to take that into consideration. They probably don't need to be punished. They need to go to bed.
Realize when learning opportunity is lost, sometimes the emotions get so high that there is not a learning opportunity here.
And then the last three kind of go together. But avoid being overly critical.
And then it's a marathon and not a sprint.
It's long term results. Right. You don't always get the immediate. The immediate results. Okay. All right. I don't want to keep you. I had a couple more slides, but we're out of time, so we'll end it there. All right. Thank you.
