Analog Faith in Digital Babylon | Jason Helton | Week 12

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You. [00:00:00] Speaker B: Hey, thanks so much for listening to this message. My name is Jason, and I'm one of the ministers here at the Madison Church of Christ. It's our hope and prayer that the teaching you hear today will bless your life and draw you closer to God. If you're ever in the Madison area, we'd love for you to stop by and study the Bible with us on Sundays at 05:00 p.m. Or Wednesdays at 07:00 p.m.. If you have questions about the Bible or want to know more about the Madison Church, you can find us online at Madison Church. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast as well as our sermons podcast, madison Church of Christ Sermons. Thanks again for stopping by. I hope this study is a blessing to you. [00:00:39] Speaker C: Welcome to class tonight. This will be the final study in our series of analog faith in Digital Babylon. Thank you so much for joining us. If this is your first time here, then you're coming in a little bit at the end of a conversation. We have covered a lot of things in this class. We've talked about VR church, we've talked about AI. We've talked about sexuality and technology, and every single week I've forgotten to mute this one, but not today. [00:01:06] Speaker A: There we go. [00:01:07] Speaker C: We've talked about all kinds of things with regards to how technology forms and shapes us spiritually, and that has really. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Been the heart of this class. [00:01:16] Speaker C: It's not necessarily to convince you to move to an Amish community. It's not necessarily to convince you to buy all stock in all technology groups. It's been a class to challenge us to think deeper about the role and the presence of technology in our lives and the impact, the consequences that some of those technologies have. So if you're with us tonight for the first time, I'd encourage you, you're welcome to go back online and you can catch up on some of the other studies. For me, it's been a very eye opening study. It's been very fun tonight. Since it's the last night, tried to find a really peppy topic for us to spend some time talking about, and the best I could come up with. [00:01:55] Speaker A: Was the Dark Web. [00:01:58] Speaker C: Does anybody know what the Dark Web is? Sonny Birch. This should be fun. Buckle? Yeah, sure. Why not? Online? Amsterdam. All right. Anybody else have a rebuttal? It's the Internet when the lights go out. That's right. Roxanne that's there too. What else? Not very many Sting or police fans. [00:02:32] Speaker A: In the audience tonight. That's unfortunate. [00:02:34] Speaker C: Essentially, yes. The Dark Web is not this separate entity from the Internet. It is a part of the Internet. We basically have three structures or three levels of the Internet that exist. The first one is the surface web. If you go to Yahoo, google, you go to even your well, not necessarily to your Facebook account, but anything that you go and you find without having to log in anything that you can find on the Internet without having to have a password or some kind of credential to access is referred to as the surface web. That's just generic surfacey things. The next level is referred to as the deep web, which is different from the dark web. The deep web we use all the time. In fact, the estimates are like 90% to 95% of the entire Internet would be classified as deep web. This is anything stored online. This is anything that you have to log in to access, whether it's to log in to see your child's grades online, whether it's to log in to see your profile or to change things, whether it's to log in to purchase something that is the deep web. If you go to Amazon, that's the surface web. If you go to checkout, that's the deep web. So when there's login, when there's a level or a layer of credentials needed to access, that is the deep web. If you keep going deeper and deeper into the deep web, you get into the dark web. The dark web is very interesting. The dark web was actually created by the US navy. The dark web was created in order to do some things privately. So the dark web is a place on the Internet, on the World Wide Web that is essentially anonymous. It works through a series of nodes. And there are probably a million people in this room that could explain this better than I can. But essentially the way a node works is your path, is your address. So your home, your physical home has a street address. In order for people to get mail to you, they have to have that street address. You have an IP address on your computer. Whenever you log into something online, an IP address is sort of your digital address. Well, these nodes work to where they ping multiple nodes across the planet and they make your address essentially untraceable. You can only trace back two or three nodes or so. And so your signal goes back and forth, back and forth. Your IP address goes all over to where it's no longer traceable. And so you can exist anonymously. And where there's anonymity, there is a lot anything that you can imagine if you ever were to access the dark web, it would look a lot like the Internet did back in the late 90s. It would not look as pretty as a normal website looks today. It is a little bit more bare bones as far as that goes. The user experience is a little bit different. On the dark web. You can purchase illegal drugs. You can also purchase prescription drugs. You can purchase ad bill if you'd like. You can technically find someone that will kill someone for you, which people have done that. People have also been found out about that and now are in prison for accessing that and asking for that and for accepting payment for that. You can find a community that you. [00:05:45] Speaker A: Really identify with, and you can speak freely. It's been referred to as the true. [00:05:50] Speaker C: Wild, wild west of the digital landscape. [00:05:53] Speaker A: It has been referred to as the. [00:05:55] Speaker C: Freest form of free speech because you. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Can say anything essentially without consequence because. [00:06:00] Speaker C: There'S anonymity there aren't really parameters in place to regulate. [00:06:05] Speaker A: So it's an unregulated landscape, which, in terms of freedom, let freedom ring in. [00:06:11] Speaker C: Terms of evil, dr. Evil reigns supreme, right? It's whatever you want to find, you can essentially find there. So the Dark Web has been used in a myriad of ways. [00:06:21] Speaker A: The positive is, before our government came. [00:06:25] Speaker C: Up with it and still uses it, governments across the planet will talk to each other in back channels. This is the way they do it anonymously, where you have an anonymous source oftentimes. A lot of The New York Times. [00:06:38] Speaker A: I know for a fact, I assume Washington Post, any major news outlet probably has a presence on the Dark Web because they have sources in different parts of the world where it's illegal to send an email to say, hey, they're. [00:06:50] Speaker C: Burning down our city right now. [00:06:52] Speaker A: If you want to get information about. [00:06:53] Speaker C: China, North Korea from people that are. [00:06:55] Speaker A: Actually in those places, they're not just going to be able to sit down. [00:06:58] Speaker C: Write out a letter, and drop it. [00:06:59] Speaker A: In the mail, nor will they be able to type out a Gmail email and send it to you because it's. [00:07:03] Speaker C: Illegal in those countries. [00:07:05] Speaker A: So in those places, it's actually a really beneficial thing. [00:07:08] Speaker C: There's some really good things that happen as a result. The FBI is able to capture people. [00:07:14] Speaker A: As a result, evil people, as a. [00:07:15] Speaker C: Result of using the Dark Web. [00:07:17] Speaker A: So it's a little bit more complicated than its reputation suggests. The name Dark Web is this evil, sinister thing because evil, sinister things absolutely do exist there. Many of you have probably had your. [00:07:31] Speaker C: Banking credentials potentially compromised through the Dark Web. [00:07:34] Speaker A: People can buy and sell account information. So if you've ever had that pop up on your credit check or your bank, somehow someone hacked in, got an. [00:07:42] Speaker C: Account information, and they're holding it for ransom. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Essentially. It's not a ransom, but for sale. Again, drugs, all kinds. [00:07:49] Speaker C: Pot in particular seems to be the most prevalent item sold. The Silk Road was a site. [00:07:55] Speaker A: It was an online marketplace on the Dark Web back in, I think, 2007 ish somewhere in there. It was the first major marketplace for illicit drugs. The founder was eventually captured, and he was arrested and is still serving time in prison. [00:08:11] Speaker C: There was another one back in 2017. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Remember when Jeff Sessions was the Attorney General? He was a part of the big bus of something. Bay. I can't remember the name of it. [00:08:20] Speaker C: Do it. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Pirate Bay. [00:08:24] Speaker C: Pirate Bay. [00:08:26] Speaker A: How do you know that? [00:08:29] Speaker C: You also read the news. [00:08:34] Speaker A: That can't be true. [00:08:35] Speaker C: Just kidding. [00:08:36] Speaker A: I totally believe you. [00:08:38] Speaker C: I would have believed if you had. [00:08:39] Speaker A: Written the dissertation as well. [00:08:41] Speaker C: Pirate Bay there's been several large busts. [00:08:44] Speaker A: I guess you would say. [00:08:45] Speaker C: But as with any evil empire or. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Enterprise like Whack a Mole, when you. [00:08:51] Speaker C: Take one down, there will be more. [00:08:52] Speaker A: And more that pop up because this. [00:08:54] Speaker C: Is an unregulated space you can't accidentally. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Happen into the dark web. [00:09:00] Speaker C: It requires some software. [00:09:03] Speaker A: It requires a specific web browser. In particular, it requires a web browser. [00:09:11] Speaker C: Called a Tor browser, which stands for the onion. And then there's an R word as well. I can't actually remember, but this is a very specific browser that allows you to access this particular part of the website of the Internet. [00:09:28] Speaker A: If you have children that constantly want. [00:09:31] Speaker C: To get online, and every time they. [00:09:32] Speaker A: Get online, they plug in a USB. [00:09:34] Speaker C: It'S because they have another processing operating. [00:09:38] Speaker A: System that they're using to access something like Linux. [00:09:42] Speaker C: You shouldn't have to have a USB. [00:09:44] Speaker A: To access the Internet. [00:09:46] Speaker C: So if you're a parent and you've noticed that in your child's habits, then that's a red flag. If you notice that there's something on their website called Tor Tor, look to see what applications have been downloaded. [00:09:59] Speaker A: That's the only way to access it. [00:10:01] Speaker C: Through some of these other web browsers. [00:10:03] Speaker A: Tor is not the only one, but it's one of the main ones. [00:10:07] Speaker C: It is a place that is nuanced and complicated as far as it has good and it has bad. [00:10:14] Speaker A: It's not really a place of necessity for most people. [00:10:17] Speaker C: I would say, from what I've researched. [00:10:19] Speaker A: It'S not a place that I guess. [00:10:24] Speaker C: There could be a reason for a. [00:10:26] Speaker A: Christian to be there. I don't know what that would be. It's essentially the digital back alley. It's slightly safer in some instances for someone to buy illegal drugs because you. [00:10:36] Speaker C: Can actually have a rating system like you would on Amazon. Is this seller honest? Do they package the materials properly or. [00:10:43] Speaker A: Will you get busted because they didn't package it well? Is this buyer someone that's lying? You can rate each other, so I guess that's a positive. Maybe fewer fentanyl deaths over time, but. [00:10:55] Speaker C: By and large it's not exclusively used for evil. By and large it's unnecessary, I think, for most folks to find their way there. And so I had a question about. [00:11:06] Speaker A: This a few weeks ago. [00:11:07] Speaker C: There was a man that one of. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Our members here that works at a. [00:11:12] Speaker C: Summer camp in South Alabama, and they. [00:11:15] Speaker A: Had a young girl that had gotten into a place where she was questioning her identity, sexual identity. She had gotten into a lot of other things. [00:11:23] Speaker C: That just some conversations that typical, probably. [00:11:27] Speaker A: 6Th and 7th graders probably shouldn't know. [00:11:30] Speaker C: About and use some language that they're like. [00:11:34] Speaker A: There's more to this. [00:11:34] Speaker C: And so as they spoke with her, they asked her, how did you find out about this? How did you come to this conclusion. [00:11:40] Speaker A: That sort of thing. And she said, well, I met some. [00:11:41] Speaker C: Friends on the Dark Web. [00:11:44] Speaker A: You don't just happen upon the Dark Web, but if someone that you or. [00:11:49] Speaker C: Someone that your child knows does know how to access a place like this, then you or your family can be. [00:11:56] Speaker A: Certainly impacted by it. [00:11:57] Speaker C: So it's something that's worth knowing, it's something worth researching more. I don't have a ton of time. [00:12:02] Speaker A: For us to spend on this because to be quite frankly, it's still new. [00:12:06] Speaker C: To me as well. I didn't realize that there were these three sublevels of the internet, but it makes sense. [00:12:13] Speaker A: The Dark Web is not a place, I think it's not a playground, not. [00:12:17] Speaker C: For people that are spiritually minded and. [00:12:20] Speaker A: Well intended for the most part. It's a place where law enforcement spends. [00:12:23] Speaker C: A lot of time and uses, and. [00:12:26] Speaker A: It is positive in some instances. [00:12:27] Speaker C: Like if you were to live in. [00:12:29] Speaker A: A communist country that doesn't allow free access to things, but you wanted to make sure that someone understood what was going on in your country, then you could access the Dark Web and you could send data that way, whether it be video or images, things like that. [00:12:41] Speaker C: That's very helpful for the rest of the world to know the realities and. [00:12:44] Speaker A: The atrocities that are going on to get the word out. That could be used in a very positive way. [00:12:48] Speaker C: It could be probably used in a. [00:12:50] Speaker A: Networking sense for the underground church in. [00:12:52] Speaker C: China in a big way there. [00:12:55] Speaker A: But whenever there is a community whose. [00:13:00] Speaker C: Greatest attraction is anonymity, I typically have. [00:13:04] Speaker A: A cause for concern for that. [00:13:06] Speaker C: It's the same thing when it comes to apps. [00:13:09] Speaker A: If you're interested in apps, or if. [00:13:10] Speaker C: Your child especially is interested in apps. [00:13:12] Speaker A: That their biggest advertisement. Is it's anonymous? Or you can post something and it goes away almost immediately within a certain amount of time. That's just a lie. [00:13:22] Speaker C: That's false. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Because in the digital landscape, the footprint is always going to be there. [00:13:27] Speaker C: It may move, but the footprint always exists. [00:13:30] Speaker A: At the beach, the waves come up. [00:13:31] Speaker C: The waves pull back and the footprints go away. That's not reality in the digital landscape. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Of and I know that dark cut sometimes can make some problems. I know that a lot of hackers are using this as well. I know that even countries that are trying to attack a different nationality is but it's not hard to find Russians as well. They're cool, but just what's there it is possible tour is not something dangerous. We're going to keep you pointing out to different locations, but then if you're going to use with that also step code that will going to clean your cookies. Yes. Using also a virtual private network, we're going to change your IP address, also protect you from it. [00:14:30] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:36] Speaker A: Keeping your personal information because you never know how you can be hacked by who even just accessing browsing, right? [00:14:45] Speaker C: VPN works similar VPN you can log in from using different IP addresses around the world. Many folks, especially in this town, use it. [00:14:54] Speaker A: You're in another country and you want to access networks from the US. You can use a VPN, that sort of thing. Virtual private network is what he referenced there. [00:15:03] Speaker C: Tour and of itself is not evil. Again, none of the technology we have. [00:15:07] Speaker A: In and of itself is generally evil. [00:15:10] Speaker C: But it is very powerful. And that's the part that is concerning. [00:15:13] Speaker A: Because when it's not used for good, then the only other option generally is for evil. Any questions about the Dark Way? [00:15:20] Speaker C: I know that's really short, really brief, but that's about all I know. [00:15:28] Speaker A: Okay, great. That's what's open tonight we're going to. [00:15:32] Speaker C: Spend some time in the Bible. We have not necessarily tried to make every session making sure that it is. [00:15:41] Speaker A: Biblical, making sure that it is spiritual. But we've gone over a lot of. [00:15:44] Speaker C: Statistics, we've looked at a lot of data. We haven't spent the majority of our. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Time together reading from the text. [00:15:50] Speaker C: And tonight we're going to do a. [00:15:51] Speaker A: Good bit more of that. If you want to open or swipe, you can, or you can read with. [00:15:55] Speaker C: Me off the screen. [00:15:56] Speaker A: One Corinthians, chapter six and verse twelve. [00:15:58] Speaker C: Paul says, all things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be dominated by anything. The context here, does anybody know what the context of First Corinthians six? [00:16:12] Speaker A: He's talking about. [00:16:16] Speaker C: Eating meat lawsuits. If you keep reading in chapter six, he gets into sex as well. The body is meant for food and food for the body. [00:16:31] Speaker A: The fact that we have access to. [00:16:33] Speaker C: Things doesn't necessarily make it the right. [00:16:35] Speaker A: Decision for us to fully embrace those things. [00:16:38] Speaker C: The body's made for food, food for body. [00:16:39] Speaker A: So I should just eat what I want? Well, to a point that becomes a. [00:16:42] Speaker C: Bad thing, right when it comes to. [00:16:45] Speaker A: I have the authority to eat meat. [00:16:48] Speaker C: That had been sacrificed to idols, but. [00:16:50] Speaker A: If it caused my brother to stumble, then I'm not going to do that. I'm going to submit to them. When it comes to matters of opinion. [00:16:56] Speaker C: In that oftentimes we live in a. [00:17:01] Speaker A: Digital age where everything is accessible. [00:17:03] Speaker C: And that gives us sort of the. [00:17:05] Speaker A: Mentality that because it's accessible, it's also right. It means that we have to have. [00:17:10] Speaker C: It as a part of our life. That is not a biblical thought process. One Corinthians, chapter ten, verse 23 says it repeats again that all things are. [00:17:21] Speaker A: Lawful, not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things build up. Paul's not necessarily talking about digital technology in these two passages in his letter. [00:17:31] Speaker C: To the church in Corinth, but I. [00:17:33] Speaker A: Do believe the concepts do apply to us today, that because we have access to these things doesn't mean that we need to embrace excess doesn't mean that we need to embrace everything that is available to us. One line that I've tried to say. [00:17:47] Speaker C: Refrain over and over again in this. [00:17:50] Speaker A: Class is we have to develop wisdom and we have to develop discernment. We have to use wisdom in making. [00:17:56] Speaker C: Decisions and then discern between what might. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Be good and what might be best. [00:18:00] Speaker C: What might be convenient, and what might. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Be spiritually more beneficial. In the book of James, we have. [00:18:07] Speaker C: A guy writing to a group of. [00:18:08] Speaker A: People that have left their homeland, they left their homes and settled in a new place. [00:18:12] Speaker C: And he says, count it all joy. [00:18:13] Speaker A: When you find yourself in the midst of circumstances that are beyond your control. Because there is spiritual value in this circumstance. [00:18:22] Speaker C: We tend today to run from negative circumstances. We tend to run from difficult conversations, we run from difficult people, we run. [00:18:31] Speaker A: From difficult situations at work. [00:18:33] Speaker C: It's easier to run. [00:18:35] Speaker A: And when it comes to being online. [00:18:36] Speaker C: It'S really easy to kind of poke the bear and then just step away. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Kind of watch everything, learn that's not necessarily just exclusive to Christian people, that's across the Internet. [00:18:48] Speaker C: Which is why we, as Christian people who are peacemakers, we are truth speakers. We have the greatest truth the world has ever known. We have access to salvation. [00:18:59] Speaker A: We are in Christ. [00:19:00] Speaker C: We have to make sure that our. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Speech reflects that not only in our personal interactions with people, but online. [00:19:07] Speaker C: There's not an opportunity for us to have a different persona online than we do in person. Our persona now is Christ. [00:19:15] Speaker A: I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who live Christ. [00:19:19] Speaker C: Who lives in me life. I live in this flesh. [00:19:22] Speaker A: I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself that's. [00:19:26] Speaker C: Paul talking to the Galatian Church I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who live online, but it's Christ who lives in me that is now represented online on my profile. [00:19:37] Speaker A: And the profile which I create and. [00:19:39] Speaker C: Curate should reflect my creator. [00:19:42] Speaker A: It should reflect the gospel. It's really easy for us to have double lives. [00:19:48] Speaker C: It's really easy for us to fall into this path of least resistance where online we respond instantly and emotionally. Mike Winkler used to talk about this all the time. The difference in responding and reacting. [00:20:03] Speaker A: Christians develop discernment and wisdom. The older they get, the more they become like Christ. And the less we react like the. [00:20:10] Speaker C: World instantly, the more we respond in. [00:20:14] Speaker A: The ways of Christ. [00:20:19] Speaker C: Let us pursue what makes for peace and mutual. Upbuilding here's Paul again. Romans, chapter 14. The online landscape is wonderful. [00:20:28] Speaker A: It allows each of us to amplify. [00:20:30] Speaker C: Our voice in a way that done previous to this digital age. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Everyone now has celebrity influence in some capacity. We have the opportunity for that. [00:20:41] Speaker C: People that should have lived their life. [00:20:43] Speaker A: In obscurity by the age of 21. [00:20:45] Speaker C: Are online influences with millions of people. [00:20:47] Speaker A: That follow them and that listen to them and do things because of what they say and because of what they do and because of how they look and how they dress. Each of us has the opportunity for influence. Let us pursue what makes for peace. [00:21:00] Speaker C: And for mutual upbuilding. [00:21:02] Speaker A: It doesn't take long to stand through. [00:21:04] Speaker C: Anybody'S newsfeed and to realize that there's. [00:21:06] Speaker A: Not a lot of peace in this world. [00:21:09] Speaker C: There's not a lot of upbuilding, mutual upbuilding. [00:21:12] Speaker A: The Church is to build itself up in love. We are to be people who speak. [00:21:18] Speaker C: Love, speak the truth in love. We've got to find ways to stand out online in the same way that we stand out and how we have love for one another in person. [00:21:29] Speaker A: Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is healthy, your. [00:21:33] Speaker C: Whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full. [00:21:38] Speaker A: What are we setting our eyes on? Remember we said several weeks ago that what has our attention has our heart. [00:21:45] Speaker C: So if our phone has our attention, even if what we're looking at is. [00:21:48] Speaker A: Not evil content, but we're always looking at these devices as opposed to looking in the eyes of the next generation, looking into the eyes of the people we love the most, looking in the eyes of strangers that are possible new Christians brothers and sisters of Christ. We're missing opportunities because we're distracted, because oftentimes we get consumed with the digital. [00:22:09] Speaker C: Devices in our life. Wisdom and discernment. Turn my eyes from looking at worthless. [00:22:17] Speaker A: Things and give me life in your ways. Was it last week or maybe the week before? [00:22:24] Speaker C: We turn to Deuteronomy, chapter six. Turn over there real quick. Deuteronomy, chapter six. And we'll start in verse four here. O Israel. The Lord our God. The Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Soul, with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk, by the way, when you. [00:22:51] Speaker C: Lie down, when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand. They shall be as frontless between your eyes. [00:22:56] Speaker A: You shall write them on the doorpost of your house and on your gates. Last week we substituted and inserted some. [00:23:04] Speaker C: Words in here to make it a little bit more 21st century for us. And these words I command you today. [00:23:09] Speaker A: Shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your. [00:23:12] Speaker C: Children, shall talk of them when you. [00:23:13] Speaker A: Sit in your house, when you walk. [00:23:15] Speaker C: By the way, you will have your phone and when you lie down, your phone will be there. [00:23:18] Speaker A: And when you rise, your phone will be the first thing you look at it. [00:23:21] Speaker C: Your phone shall be bound as a. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Sign in your hand. It shall be as frontless between your eyes because that is what has your. [00:23:27] Speaker C: Attention on your doorposts of your house. [00:23:30] Speaker A: And on your gates. Even if you don't have a gate, you have a phone, you have a tablet. Oftentimes what has our attention throughout the. [00:23:38] Speaker C: Day is a little rectangle or a little bigger rectangle or a rectangle that sits in your lap. We're surrounded by these devices and they are not in and of themselves sinful to possess. They are not sinful to use. In fact, they could be used really. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Really effectively and they are being used really effectively by people in this room, people outside these walls. But the challenge for us today is to keep a very watchful eye. We have to be clever. [00:24:05] Speaker C: We have to build in guardrails in. [00:24:08] Speaker A: Our own lives because they don't come naturally, they don't come without thought. Jesus described two roads very different from Robert Frost analysis of two roads. He said, one is wide, one is. [00:24:20] Speaker C: Easy, and there are many who go down that road, the folks that go down that path. It requires very little effort to be. [00:24:27] Speaker A: A part of that group. There's very little resistance to walk down. [00:24:31] Speaker C: That path, but it leads to destruction. [00:24:33] Speaker A: The path that leads to holiness, the. [00:24:35] Speaker C: Path that leads to everlasting life is the path that is difficult and narrow and it's hard. We have to look a little different than the people around us in the way that we use our technology, in the way that we leverage our relationships. [00:24:51] Speaker A: For the Kingdom of God. [00:24:52] Speaker C: We have to leverage our technology for. [00:24:53] Speaker A: The Kingdom of God in the way that we leverage our time for the Kingdom of God. We have to leverage our skill set. [00:24:59] Speaker C: For the Kingdom of God. [00:25:00] Speaker A: We have to leverage all of the. [00:25:02] Speaker C: Resources in our life for the betterment. [00:25:04] Speaker A: The advancement of the gospel. God is using us in this digital age to bring about his will. And when you think of it that. [00:25:12] Speaker C: Way, you are now armed with this. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Technology to be effective, to be fruitful in the kingdom. [00:25:17] Speaker C: And that is exciting. [00:25:19] Speaker A: A lot of this class has admittedly had a negative tone. Part of that is because I think it took a little bit of time for us to really realize, okay, this is a little bit deeper than surface level. [00:25:30] Speaker C: There has been cause for concern, but there's also calls for rejoicing and for excitement because the people in this room have creativity. Many of you work in industries that directly impact the technologies that are being created. That's just cool to me, that's really amazing. We got people that work with AI on a daily basis. We got people that work in graphics, that work in mapping, that work in defense industries and technology industries, people that are going to help get us to Mars one day, that's cool. But the things that are cool oftentimes have another side to them. And as long as we can leverage the positive, the side that is helpful and be wise and know where that line is when it steps over into something that is no longer helpful spiritually, as long as we can discern that, then we can continue to walk with confidence. But when we get lazy or just tired and we allow these things to take our minds wherever the device wants us to go, wherever the algorithm is pointing, as opposed to being discerning and listening to the word of God, when that happens, when we start listening to those devices, we start getting on autopilot, we find ourselves in a difficult place. This is a quote that we referenced early on. We've created a digital world in which it is increasingly easy to imagine that reality is something we can manipulate according to our own wills and desires, and not something that we necessarily need to conform ourselves to. I'll read it one more time. We have created this digital world in which it is increasingly easy to imagine that reality is something we can manipulate according to our own wills and desires, and not something that we necessarily need to conform ourselves to. That idea runs in opposition to what we see in Romans chapter twelve. I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing, you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. The life of a Christian is a life of conformity, which sounds like a bad word these days. To be a conformist, we conform to the image of Christ. The fact that by submission and dying to self comes freedom and liberty. It's a countercultural argument. It's a concept that doesn't make sense to the world, which also sounds biblical, right? Because the gospel is what to those who are perishing, it's folly. To those who are perishing doesn't make any sense. But to those of us who are being saved, is the power of God under that salvation? I think I mashed up a couple verses in there, but you get the point. Paul is saying that the power of the gospel is what allows us to be saved. Becoming like Christ allows us to have true freedom outside of Christ. Living a life of sin is really a life that lacks freedom. But the world kind of twists that and turns that and rephrases that. And if we're not careful, if we don't recalibrate our terminology with the Bible, every new generation, then we're going to start twisting up those words. We're going to start misrepresenting scripture and we're. Going to start pursuing the world for the sake of the gospel. But it's just a shell. It's not the authentic thing. Oftentimes that's what technology does. It creates a virtual reality that is not actual reality. In fact, it tries to mimic reality. What makes a virtual reality item so good is how real it looks, which is just kind of a weird Inception like irony, right? That's a word in there. It's ironic that the more real it is, the better it is. But it's the more anyway, getting off on a tangent, this is one of the main questions of this class. How are the things that we use in our life? How are they cultivating fruit of the Spirit? How are they making us more like Christ? How are they getting us to think deeper spiritually? How are they making us more effective for the kingdom? And that is an open ended question. And it applies to your device. It applies to the apps on that device. It applies to your vehicle. It applies to anything in our lives. How is this relationship cultivating the fruit of the spirit in my life if it's not what needs to take place? How does entertainment, how does it sit in our world? Does it continue to make us more like Christ? Or does it cause us to just sit and veg out and become less spiritual? I think it's a really good question for us to keep at the forefront. One more little quote and then we'll open it up for discussion. Apps and devices are designed to highlight our impulses before they highlight our values. Apps and devices are designed to highlight our impulses before they highlight our values. We've talked about a gentleman by the name of Tristan Harris quite a bit in here. He did the documentary of the social dilemma. He's also behind Humantech.org sharp guy. He was a Google ethicist. And what he really brought to the forefront was the actual purpose of modern technologies, in particular with social media apps. They are designed for their word engagement. The reality of that turns into addiction. This attention economy that we live in is something that we have to be aware of so that we know that we know how to stop becoming the commodity, to stop being the thing that's being bought and sold. And the price is what we're paying for it, right? It's for our own attention. So I know I've kind of been all over the place tonight's. A little bit of a summary, but I am very curious to hear your feedback throughout the course of this class, of this study. What was something that really stuck out to you that maybe either shocked you or something that really touched you and kind of challenged your thinking? Was there anything in particular that we've touched on that you found particularly transformational or impactful? [00:31:31] Speaker D: It's made me think a lot about myself. We point the finger at our kids. [00:31:36] Speaker A: A lot of times. [00:31:37] Speaker D: And during that last two minutes, I'm sitting there thinking there's probably half a dozen apps on my phone that I could delete. It probably should delete. Not that it's bad content, but that it has my attention probably more than it should. I mean, just watching stupid little mindless videos and stuff when I'm sitting around. But we point our fingers at our kids all the time, but it's hard to point it back at ourselves. That's something that's made me good class has made me think a lot about. [00:31:59] Speaker A: Over the last several weeks. [00:32:01] Speaker C: One of the things I aimed to do in this class was to not make it exclusively a parenting class, because I think these are conversations that need to happen across the generations. And that, to your point, Wesley, is everything here. If we've said kid, we also could say me, right? It's meant to be internal. And that's a very good point. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Anything else? [00:32:21] Speaker C: Andrew? [00:32:21] Speaker E: I think you mentioned this like, three or four weeks ago, but something along the lines of one of the things that usually if it's a technology class or something like that, when we focus with our kids, it's usually how to just safeguard, which is good. And we need to do that. But we're being very proactive in safeguarding, which we need to. But you had mentioned the importance of being proactive, in giving them opportunities to be relational. And we need to meet the energy that we put towards safeguarding their phones. Also to put energy towards giving them opportunities to sit across the table from people, to know how to have conversations with adults and those kind of things as well, and each other. So I guess putting energy in both areas. [00:33:09] Speaker C: Yeah, putting energy in real relationship. I also think one of the things that came up in our VR conversation was the value of being in each other's physical presence. We have to make sure that that is valuable. We have to make sure that people don't come to this building and this is the loneliest place for them to be. We have to make sure that there is a connection, that there is a relationship here. That when they miss out on that, they're actually missing out on something. I think that's a great point. What else? Yes, sir. [00:33:42] Speaker F: Yeah, that's a great point. Because I've been thinking about why we tend to drive towards technology anyway. And maybe it's because we may not feel like we have a place we can be ourselves, like in person until we go to technology. Or we feel like, I don't know. The reason you get addicted to something right, is because it's something that fills a hole that you don't actually a hole that you have that's not being filled in reality. So we go to the digital space. So, yeah, I think we need to make sure that our reality is worth being in and that we're pulling people into that as well. [00:34:29] Speaker C: It's really well said. I think a lot of times in particular in the pornography conversation, one of the areas we didn't really fully develop but was the idea that that lustful content becomes a coping mechanism for a lot of people either because of trauma or because of difficult circumstances, because of past relationships and sometimes because of boredom. To your point that we just find something to fill a void, we all cope in life. And I'm beginning to realize that few people cope really well in all stages of life. And so whether it's lustful content or it's just materialism or it's just doomsday scrolling or it's just scrolling for no reason watching the water skiing squirrels, I'm with you, man. I got a whole catalog of that. Whatever it is that we fill our time, that is when we look back 30 years down the road and say, that really added zero value to my life. And yet, man, I meant to add a slide in here with an image that I totally forgot. There are a couple of different charts out there and graphs that show a person's life in terms of dots of circles, the amount of average of like 80. Each dot represents a week of their life. And I saw a Ted Talk where a guy filled in based off of the average amount of screen time of today's 15 year old, I think it was, he filled in all the dots of the amount of time that they would spend on a phone if they lived to be like 85. And it was somewhere in the neighborhood of about 70 years of their life would be spent on a phone or on a device based off of the average amount of screen time. I'm not sure how that math adds up, but that's a pretty sobering thought. And when you see it visually, which is I really wish I had put that up there, it stops you in your tracks. So the amount of time that we just fiddle away, right, we go because it's there again, not all things are accessible, but not all things are helpful. Not all things are beneficial. Not all things everything that advertises infinite is not the same as eternal. And I think that's really important for us to remember as well. Great comments on anybody else? Yes, sir. [00:36:38] Speaker G: For me, it was we talked about the surgeon General kind of towards the beginning of the class, how it took them several generations to come about with smoking, several more generations to come out with how much time we are on the computer and stuff like that to be bad for mental health or physical health or whatever it be. To me, that's kind of stuck. And I've actually had conversations about it outside of here, other places, because it's just blowing my brain. But then also the conversations we've had in the room. One, it shows how generationally we think differently but then also how you've brought up, you've reminded us, hey, think about this, because two weeks ago you said, VR, what about kids that grow up in all of this? How can we even talk about it? Because for all of us, yeah, COVID we missed that connection, but they don't necessarily have that connection because everything's digital for them. And so having that enlightenment and enlightenment enlightenment about how to conversate outside of my generation, whether it's up or down, has been helpful in this class, too. [00:37:53] Speaker A: That's a great point. [00:37:54] Speaker C: I love the diversity that we've had in this class. There are multiple generations represented. If you're an older person in this class and you don't know the names of most of the young people in this class, please be the one that is assertive and says hello, all right? Young people agree. That's not going to be creepy out of the gate. Just say hello and smile back and give them a good handshake, all right? Or vice versa. If you're a young person in here and you feel like you don't know any of the older folks, be assertive and go say, hi. I've seen you worship from across the room for years. I've been here for a couple of years now. What's your name? If we don't establish these intergenerational connections, that's the term we like to use these days, right? The Bible says family. The Bible says that the eye cannot say to the hand that I have no use of you. The Bible says that if you're old, then you can't say the young whippersnappers are useless. The Bible says you need them in your life. And if you're young, you can't say that the old folks are out of touch and therefore out of my life. The Bible says you need them as well. When both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between exist in harmony, the church builds itself up in love and there's balance. When either one of those are out of sync and dismissive of the other, then we're out of balance and we cease to be a healthy church. And so I think that's a great, great point that hearing the different thoughts here should give us pause, it should give us patience, and then it should give us a motivation to go deeper in our friendships and our relationships with the people that, guess what? We're going to spend eternity together. Why not get to know each other now, right? It'll be less awkward then just saying. Anybody else? [00:39:32] Speaker A: Yes, sir. [00:39:33] Speaker F: I think it really highlights kind of the danger of convenience. We need to constantly be thinking out about and being aware of the things that we do that seem like a really low investment in time. It takes half a second. Flip your phone up, face ID, recognize your face, you're on Facebook within a second. So just the dangers of convenience and being really intentional about all the acts that we do during the day, even though there's such a low investment to get into them. I think it's really important when it comes to technology. [00:40:06] Speaker C: That's a great observation. I think there's a cost to every convenience that we have and sometimes the cost is good and worth it and valuable, but oftentimes it's not. That's a great point. Yes, ma'am. [00:40:18] Speaker H: I think just about everything that every different subject you talk about has made me think at some point and it all kind of goes back to your relationships with other people. And I think Tag said about convenience if it's like we're focusing on the convenience of things, we're going to lose out on those relationships. Which is crazy because you think it's convenient, because I can pick up the phone and talk to somebody in 2 seconds, or I can slack them, or I can send a message on Facebook, or I can do whatever. But with all those things it's like you're losing your relationships and actually seeing and talking to different people. And the same with like if you're sitting at home watching church. It was great when we couldn't meet together. It still is great we can't meet together, but you're missing out on being with your brothers and sisters and having a community. If you're home as just watching a screen that you talked about it maybe go back to relationship in some form of fashion. There's a hole relationship. [00:41:35] Speaker C: Technology facilitates the communication in a relationship, but the relationship is always going to be the substance and we can't conflate the two. I think that was very well said. Great point on that as well. And that is something that's really easy to dismiss or to not really think about because we have so much connection. But as we've seen in the data, we are more connected online than we've ever been and we're more disconnected offline than we've ever been. Emerging generations have more virtual connections than anybody on the planet, and yet they have the highest rate of anxiety, depression, suicide ideation. Those are not good stats, those are not good trends, but they are connected. I want to leave you with a quote hear from a book called Habits of the Household that I would highly recommend. Consider the stakes for a moment. If we do not teach our kids about sex, screens will be happy to do it for us. If we do not teach them categories of good and evil, then screens will be happy to obscure all of them. If we do not teach them that God made them who they are on purpose, man or woman, in black or white, then screens will be happy to confuse their understanding of all these things. If we do not teach them that buying things will not make them happy and that consumption always leaves you hungrier, then screens will teach them that being a consumer is a way to status and satisfaction. If we do not teach them that the world of nature is ferocious and fantastic, something to be stewarded and stunned by, then the world of screens will teach them that looking at pictures of nature is enough. If we do not teach them that silence is a sacred place where God speaks to us, then screens will make sure they never, ever discover it. If we do not teach them that vulnerable and embodied friendship is the heart of the good life, then screens will relentlessly nudge them toward connecting and liking their way to endemic loneliness. I thought that was a really good warning. And I don't think that it's limited to our kids. [00:43:18] Speaker A: That's something for each one of us. [00:43:19] Speaker C: To internalize, that if we settle for what is virtual, we settle for what is like real things, then we will settle for something that is less than realities. In fact, if you want a spiritual discussion on that, go through the entire book of Hebrews where it says the things of the old law were meant to point us to the realities of Christ. This is not a new concept for us as Christians, but we do need to see our reality today, our current, present time today, through the realities of the gospel, through the realities of spiritual things, deep spiritual community, spiritual connection to each other through the blood of Christ. That is the most important thing in our world. And we need to steward technology to enhance that and to be better at that and to broaden that, amplify that, but not to replace that. It can never become an idol for those of us that are called by the name of Christ. Any other thoughts before we close and. [00:44:16] Speaker A: We see a table of old six? Never. One of them is on their phone. Even the little kids are some kind. [00:44:22] Speaker G: Of device or something. [00:44:23] Speaker A: I know I'm old. When we went out, people smoked at the table. [00:44:28] Speaker C: He's old. Not you, Teresa. Don't worry, it's just him. [00:44:31] Speaker A: We were quiet, but we listened to what the adults were talking. And I learned so much, so many funny stories, so many things that they talked about that kids miss out on the day because they're right here and they're not hearing what's being said around. [00:44:48] Speaker C: I was out to dinner the other day and there was a group of four folks. Same thing, same exact situation. They were all over the age of 60. To your point, though, what do we miss out on? The FOMO is that we're missing out on something here when the reality is we're missing out on something here. And that's a great point, Jim, that we are going to miss out on things if we allow ourselves to. Thank you guys for being a part of this. Let's close in prayer and we'll be dismissed. Father, we thank you again for the opportunity to gather in your name tonight, to glorify you to become sharper as Christians, to become better, more accountable and encouraging to each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. You've given us the opportunity to live in this age. Help us to do so in a way that glorifies you and grows your kingdom. Help us to be connected to each other, to use our devices and technologies to be better communicators to each other, but never to replace the substance of our relationships either with each other or with you. Father, I ask that those that are struggling with addiction in any capacity tonight, that you would allow us to encourage them, that they would be encouraged by the conversations we've had, that each of us would feel closer to each other as a result of this study, that we'd be willing to confess sin to each other. We would be willing to be accountable to each other and to lift each other up. Father, you have given us Christ so that we could live freely in Him. We thank you for that eternally. Help us to be better stewards every single day. We love you and we thank you in Christ's name. Amen. Love you guys very much. Thanks for joining us online. We will see you guys later.